Talk:Hindutva

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Rquest for deletion or reviewing of certain articles

I would be really thankfull if you give a second view of the 2nd and 3rd paragraph of intorduction. These are the typicall western@ media's stereotypical lines and would really promote of the rewritting of the article by an INDIAN or atleast of INDIAN ORIGIN.
Thank you
Regards
Yamantakks (talk) 10:53, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

To @Daxserver,

Dear I also wrote the same on your talk page and i am writting here but i want to add something, there may be many people on wikipedia and yes they have different views but on the basis of such an abstract fact you can't justify for the 2^nd Paragraph as it misleads the reader by first telling extrememly megative things about it and saying that some believe that. I would be really happy if you unrevertef my changes. Yamantakks (talk) 17:19, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sometimes "megative things" are just simple matters of fact. Wikipedia appeals to general consensus. You might feel differently, but Wikipedia is not an ideological battleground. It's an encyclopedia. The article about Hindutva is unkind because, to quote Dan Olson, "the facts are just, prima facia, unkind". Hindutva is a fascist ideology, which means it supports things the average world citizen would likely find upsetting. Documenting these things as they are - abhorrent - is not ideological per se, it's standard procedure post World War II. Racial mob violence and concepts of ethnic purity/homeland are things anyone with knowledge of political history can recognize as part of a violent, far-right ideology.

There's precious little space for debate when we are dealing with definitions as given.

Best regards,

Magpiesmeanstoeuphoria (talk) 20:45, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Inspired by European fascism" is NOT accurate paraphrasing of the source. The source cited offers an opinion that this is the case, and it should be clear in the sentence itself that the statement is an opinion. In my view such opinions are better described as "criticism". As you say, wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not an ideological battleground; so please stop using it to manipulate the Overton window of the easily influenced. 49.184.153.200 (talk) 02:19, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Needs work to make it less partisan

This article is partisan because of selective sourcing, despite the NPOV policy. For example, Deen Dayal Upadhyaya, the leading ideologue of modern Hindutva ^[1] and the inspiration for Modi, is nowhere mentioned. Statements by current RSS leadership that expand Hindutva to include anyone living in India^[2] are ignored. Secondary sources related to these statements are available, but ignored. All relevant sides must be presented to justify the NPOV label.

A section called "dissenting views" or "rebuttals to fascism", or similar wording should be added, unless the partisanship is deliberate. I can submit draft content if this is approved. Sooku (talk) 20:57, 14 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Sooku There are multiple sources given in the article. Just because you do not like them, doesn't mean it's partisanal in nature. Which sources or opinions provided here are "partisanal" to you?

NPOV is not violated just because undue weight is not given to Hindutva politician's views. It's well established procedure to not include overtly biased opinions in WP articles, especially in the main sections.

I do believe that such dissenting views should be included under a separate subheading. You should submit a draft on it if you want to. SoloKnowHow83 (talk) 10:29, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia is written by summarising WP:SECONDARY sources, scholarly sources when available. The OP is citing WP:NPOV, which is a policy, but they do not seem to have actually read the policy.-- Kautilya3 (talk) 15:24, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is Systemic bias in Wikipedia, especially Western (Global North) and Left-Liberal bias. A prima facie investigation on the authors of the secondary and primary sources in this article confirms such biases, especially the western bias. @Sooku may have misinterpretated such biases with the non-applicability of the NPOV policy, which in itself is mostly followed but a systemic study will show the policy itself favors the biases involved just like most other policies. This contention shouldn't be ignored nor their views be dismissed based on personal assumptions about the user.

Hindutva is a very India based topic and it's sad to see that Indian based secondary or primary sources are not present in an adequate quantity. Hopefully the situation will improve. SoloKnowHow83 (talk) 17:13, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ The Hindu Nation, by M K Raghavendra, pp. 161-167 https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/hindu-nation-9789390358380/
^ RSS Chief Mohan Bhagwat's Views on Hindutva, https://indianexpress.com/article/india/shiv-sena-rss-hindutva-6901147/

Keep The redirect as well

Hindutva should be kept redirected to Hindutva Politics, if there’s any problem lets have discussion over it, I’m sure others will agree to it. EntrepreneurPedia (talk) 21:44, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not so sure others will agree. I've reverted the move. The concise "Hindutva" is commonly used by reliable sources, and it generally refers unambiguously to this topic. The article does briefly discuss a historical alternate usage. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 22:10, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, to the sources but title should definitely be changed because Hindutva refers to religion not just politics, and the whole article is about Hindtuva Politics I suggest there needs to be discussion. Because I came to this article via search on google so I’m felt quiet miss directed. Why not have discussion? EntrepreneurPedia (talk) 22:15, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 20 October 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

In the Tertiary sources sub-section of the Definition section, there is a sentence which reads, Modern politicians have attempted to play down the racial and anti-Muslim aspects of Hindutva, stressing the inclusiveness of the Indian identity; but the term has Fascist undertones." but the source used doesn't say anything like that, so please remove the sentence. 2406:7400:90:5E60:35D4:1004:3EF1:2E8D (talk) 15:44, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This whole article seems to have been written with an intention of maligning Hindutva (POV as Wikipedia says). Someone should go through the sources to see if the sources really say what is mentioned in this article.-2406:7400:90:5E60:8CA9:F986:45D3:ED5B (talk) 16:36, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done I've confirmed that this exact quote appears in the source. Note that the neutral point of view policy requires specifically that the information in sources should be described neutrally. If most academic sources say that there are racist or violent elements to Hindutva, then there's not much Wikipedia can do about until the academic consensus changes. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 20:14, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Removal of text

EarthDude, Bsskchaitanya, Dāsānudāsa and DaxServer, Vanamonde93 has reverted some text with these edits: [1], [2] and [3]. Please find and add the necessary sources and add all that back with sources.-QueSera1 (talk) 13:53, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The first of those were added by the User Bsskchaitanya.-QueSera1 (talk) 14:01, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In the second revert, Vanamonde has removed the bit of text, "integrating it with the rest of the country" but the source cited was already saying that.-QueSera1 (talk) 14:05, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In the third revert, Vanamonde has removed the bit of text, "as excavations proved that a temple existed there previously" but the source cited was already saying that.-QueSera1 (talk) 14:08, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I do agree that first edit in this matter was done by me. There are enough sources that mention about the opinion of the Indian Supreme Court related to the definition of Hindutva. I felt that the lede of the article may misguide any neutral reader who is unaware of history of modern India and its politics gets misled by the notion that Hindutva is some fascist agenda. It is important to mention the opinion of the Supreme Court of India on this matter. Perhaps we may discuss on this to achieve WP:CONSENSUS. Vanamonde93 is a senior editor and I am of opinion that it is good heed that person's advice in this matter while achieving consensus. Bsskchaitanya (talk) 20:24, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please read WP:ONUS, WP:CONSENSUS and WP:CANVAS. You need to demonstrated that the content you added is verifiable, and you need to obtain consensus for its inclusion, without calling specific editors here because you know they will support you. The sourcing you provided is not good enough. Vanamonde93 (talk) 22:30, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Bsskchaitanya:, please bring up more reliable sources for what you want this article to convey.-QueSera1 (talk) 17:28, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Vanamonde93: In your second revert, you have removed the bit of text, "integrating it with the rest of the country" but the source cited was already saying that.-QueSera1 (talk) 13:01, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In your third revert, you have removed the bit of text, "as excavations proved that a temple existed there previously" but the source cited was already saying that.-QueSera1 (talk) 13:01, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is not enough for a single source to say something; for us to present an assertion as fact, it needs to reflect the preponderance of reliable sources. High-quality sources do not uniformly support either of your claims. Vanamonde93 (talk) 00:45, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] The Hindu Nation, by M K Raghavendra, pp. 161-167 https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/hindu-nation-9789390358380/

[2] RSS Chief Mohan Bhagwat's Views on Hindutva, https://indianexpress.com/article/india/shiv-sena-rss-hindutva-6901147/

[1]

[2]